March 28, 2012 | 48 comments
By Roger Nusbaum
A contributor at Seeking Alpha who goes by the handle Regarded Solutions wrote a post about a month ago that sets out to debunk 10 retirement lies. Per their bio page, Regarded Solutions is retired, there is no mention of gender and because of the liberal use of the word we in the bio I'm not sure if this is husband and wife but to keep things simple I will just use the word he when a pronoun is called for.
Before getting into the retirement lies he provides very transparent information on a dividend based portfolio.
Lie number 1 was "You will need multi-millions of dollars to retire 'comfortably'" which of course is good timing after I tried to explore a reader's comment about needing $2 million. His point here seems to be you can't spend more than what comes in. This is true of course. So then what is comfortable? One person's idea of comfortable could easily require millions. He goes on to say "it's more about how much you spend" so if that is true (and I agree it is) then I am not sure any lie was debunked. This is a good reminder about living within your means and again, I agree.
Lie number 2 was "Social Security will not be around for those over 50 when you retire." I don't see this one very often. I don't believe it will be around for people under 50 at least not the way we now know it. I have said many times that I, in my mid 40s, expect nothing, which is the more conservative planning approach. If I am wrong then maybe I'll be able to get a sweet grille like Gator (Will Ferrell in the movie The Other Guys).
Lie number 3 was "Medicare will not be available for those approaching retirement". Again, I've not read that people approaching retirement are in jeopardy.
Lie number 4 was "Keep a much smaller % of cash invested in equities." I'm not sure that the advisor community says this anymore. Bogle does however, but he is correct that people tend to become too conservative with their asset allocations. If you're 60 and either of your parents are alive then you need to plan on being around long enough for even "normal" inflation to eat away at your purchasing power.
Lie number 5 was "The 4% withdrawal rule is the best to follow." Obviously I believe in not exceeding 4%. His argument here is that he says he believes in the die broke philosophy. He talks about not wanting to eat saltines and then leave it all to the kids. How much someone does or does not leave to their heirs is a personal decision with no wrong answer so no quibble there. As a stark example the risk to the die broke scenario could thought of as planning at 70 to die broke at 95 and somehow being quite fit well past 100.
Also I may have missed it but this idea would seem to conflict with not spending more than what comes in. It looks like he believes in just spending the dividends, so in theory he would never be broke. He is a very prolific writer and so I am sure this is addressed somewhere else in his posts.
Lie number 6 was "Annuities 'guarantee' money for life." I don't care for annuities either. I was picked on about this a few weeks ago to the point of someone doubting my integrity but I simply don't believe in relying on an insurance company in this way.
Lie number 7 was "Stocks are too risky in retirement." This seems like a repeat of number 4 and I agree people often become too conservative.
Lie number 8 was "Make sure you have a professional advisor to 'help' you." Managing a portfolio requires time and a certain amount of understanding of markets and human behavior. Almost anyone can learn these things for themselves and manage their own portfolios. Not everyone wants to spend the time. Someone who does not want to spend the time should hire some help. An advisor can be a big help even if all they do is prevent clients from succumbing to their own behavioral flaws.
I tend to believe a portfolio needs time devoted to it but that does not have to mean hiring someone. Assuming Regarded Solutions is a do-it-yourselfer he is someone who wants to spend the time on his portfolio. This blog is written in part because I expect very few of the people reading it will ever hire me or anyone else to manage their money.
Lie number 9 was "Make sure you leave enough for the kids." This is a repeat from above and to be blunt I'm not sure the industry says this. I've worked at two buyside firms and at both the approach was along the lines of "what are your thoughts about leaving money to your kids or anyone else" and then the plan is built with that wish in mind.
I know people who view how much they leave to their children is a measure of their value as people and at the other extreme I know very wealthy people who believe the obligation ends once college is paid for and think it is crazy to leave anything to children. An advisor who questions that, as opposed to simply trying to execute the client's wishes, will have one less client. And of course an advisor may need to deliver bad news on this front but that is not the same thing as questioning the intention.
Lie number 10 was "Retirement is an outdated idea, work forever." I'm not sure this is a lie foisted upon an unsuspecting public by the financial services industry as I have been reading comments along these lines on my blog and in other places for many years. Recently I talked about one line of comments though, that believes there is some sort of conspiracy to train us into believing we need to work longer and won't get the social security benefits we think we have coming.
Like a couple of things above, the manner in which we "retire" is very subjective. I could argue that I am retired now. I work from home doing things that I love doing and that I hope to do for a very long time. My personal belief is that working is a better way to stay mentally sharp for longer. Based on what I can tell Regarded Solutions stays very busy. I have no idea if the investment writing pays him anything but it is a vocation.
As for the potential financial benefit from working I've written about this many times in the context of trying to relieve some of the income burden that would otherwise be place on the portfolio. To his first point if your idea of comfortable can't quite be covered by the dividend income (I believe he is a dividend investor) then maybe another $500 or $1000 from some part time work could bridge the gap to "comfortable."
I agree with most of the ideas spelled out in the article, the common sense notion was very good but it is not clear to me that too many lies were actually debunked.
Comments (48)
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David Van KnappComments (4575)
Good article. Well-explained points of view. So much about retirement is subjective, and your article captures the importance of the individuality of retirement.
Dave 28 Mar, 10:45 AMReply! Report AbuseLike2
LarryMelmanComments (179)
Good job of laying out the basic issues and ways to think about them. A much more reasonable attitude than simply labeling statements (which may or may not ever have been made) as "lies". 28 Mar, 11:40 AMReply! Report AbuseLike1
kwm3Comments (763)
I doubt whether the many profligate people under 40 will ever be able to retire. many work at companies that will boot them out the door at some age, probably 65-67, they will not have the option of, say, a lawyer to work as long as they want. many have spent massively beyond their means, without saving much, if any, money. unlike boomers, they don't have pensions, and SS is very likely going to be pared back, as will medicare.... plus, they'll be taxed alot more during their future working years courtesy of government profligacy. upon departure from their company they will likely be forced to take a low paying menial job. retirement for many under 40 would seem a dream that is quickly fading. 28 Mar, 11:57 AMReply! Report AbuseLike4
Roger NusbaumComments (1080)
"retirement for many under 40 would seem a dream that is quickly fading."
I prefer to think of it as a challenge to be solved. 28 Mar, 12:13 PMReply! Report AbuseLike8
kwm3Comments (763)
Roger, I like the attitude, and prefer to think of it that way too; however, I know too many people who have leveraged 45-55% of their income for the next 30 years into a gorgeous house that's now deeply underwater--and as you know real-adjusted incomes don't rise--so it's a very large challenge to solve... I hope you can help people in these situations. 28 Mar, 01:18 PMReply! Report AbuseLike4
TomF75Comments (422)
kw,
I assure you they are beyond hope...no one in their 20's and early 30's is going to make anywhere near enough (nor have the desire) to saddle themselves with those beutiful albatrosses 60-80 minutes from where all the jobs are, when those folks need to unloaded them in about 10-15 years. 28 Mar, 04:20 PMReply! Report AbuseLike1
AgAuMoneyComments (840)
If someone is paying 50% of their income for a house, and now find themselves "deeply under water", it is time to seriously consider exercising the full terms of their mortgage contract by turning in the keys and taking the hit on the credit rating. Yes, it might be 2 to 7 years before they can buy their next house. But if they are "deeply underwater" it will be at least that long before they can sell. And 50% is way too much to be spending on housing.
Of course, maybe they are willing to pay that much to be in a home they love even if they never break even.
And if they haven't yet learned their lesson, they'll soon find themselves in some other equally bad situation. 29 Mar, 12:33 AMReply! Report AbuseLike0
Rhianni32Comments (1432)
Agreed AgAuMoney. The mortgage is pretty clear that a person has two choices
1: Pay and keep the house
2: Do not pay and lose the house.
If someone wants to pick 1 each month which financially hinders them for the rest of their life (by not allowing to save for retirement) that is certainly their choice.
I disagree with kwm3 that its a hold problem to solve. Its very easy to solve actually. 29 Mar, 12:21 PMReply! Report AbuseLike0
SanDiegoNonSurferComments (982)
Retirement is actually a fairly recent concept. In times past, people worked pretty much indefinitely. As the industrial revolution matured into a more genteel industrial society, a number of companies began offering retirement benefits to workers. Eventually that came to be viewed as the norm -- that one would work only for a while, then retire on one's pension. Pensions started disappearing rapidly in the 80's and 90's -- along with another casualty, corporate loyalty. Nevertheless, people still expected that, somehow, they would not need to work after the magical age of 65. I think we're only now returning to reality on this whole concept of retirement. People no longer expect a benevolent company pension to provide for them in their old age and are realizing that SS won't necessarily cover retirement either. While recognizing that the transition may be very painful, there's actually something healthy in the idea that we return to taking personal responsibility for our entire life. I would hope that everyone can find stimulating and fulfilling work at every age that engages their mind and allows them to make a contribution to something they care about -- whether they need to do that for financial reasons or not. 28 Mar, 03:03 PMReply! Report AbuseLike3
Regarded SolutionsComments (3145)
I completely agree nonsurfer.....people should absolutely continue to keep active in whatever form that takes....Whether it is working, volunteering, writing, whatever. Letting our minds idle will run down the engine without getting us anywhere.
That being said, yes in the past prior to social security and the like, people continued to work for as long as they could. Life spans were not as long, even when we take into account that newborn mortality rate drops have made up the majority of our longevity numbers. Illness' which are managable now or cured now, led to an earlier demise as well, so people litterally worked until they dropped.
Todays world is changing and people hopefully will take responsibility for their own lives....retirement or not. It is challenging yet probably much more rewarding anyway. 28 Mar, 03:16 PMReply! Report AbuseLike1
williamwilliamComments (270)
Labor shortage is on the horizon. By 2020, 10 new retirees for 1 labor market entrant. 10:1 retirees: new workers. GenY and Millenials will have a chance to 'reboot' their careers. 28 Mar, 04:14 PMReply! Report AbuseLike2
Regarded SolutionsComments (3145)
very well could be......the more things change, the more things stay the same. 28 Mar, 07:56 PMReply! Report AbuseLike0
Regarded SolutionsComments (3145)
So if i am to understand what you have stated in your article, is that you agree with most of the myths out there, that they ARE myths, which I have given my opinion on, yet you do not think that the myths were "debunked" enough to your satisfaction???????
I wont get into a long diatribe with you on it because your opinion is less than what i would have expected quite frankly, but to me it seems obvious that you MIGHT have missed the entire point of my article......regular folks are spoon fed BS.
Here is my bottom line.....you have done nothing to debunk my debunking! LOL.....Let's let the readers decide. 28 Mar, 12:41 PMReply! Report AbuseLike5
Roger NusbaumComments (1080)
I agree with the common sense approach you wrote about. I don't think that too many of the bullet points are lies being pushed onto the investing public. 28 Mar, 12:46 PMReply! Report AbuseLike4
Regarded SolutionsComments (3145)
ok, fair enough Rog, but I am the public and read lots of stuff myself......just as you do.....I also just yak with folks just like me...regular people.....and thats what i have come away with for a long time now......who knows, perhaps I am completely wrong about the public being spoon fed the BS.....me being the public, maybe i have been reading the wrong newspapers and listening to the wrong politicos......whateve... we still luv ya! 28 Mar, 01:04 PMReply! Report AbuseLike3
Regarded SolutionsComments (3145)
BTW, just to make it clear....I DO like this article, and am simply sticking my nose in to make an appearance here!
RS
From US to you Roger! LOL 28 Mar, 12:48 PMReply! Report AbuseLike5
torypdxComment (1)
This is good. One thing not mentioned is having no debt (including mortgage) gives one much freedom. Taxes do become a big expense for traders unclear how this is figured in. Energy if you combine gas, home utilities plus food for the human tank is next biggest expense. Diversifying how you consume energy is good strategy for freedom.
Inheritance tax by states is awful, this should be banished but that isn't going to happen. So I agree it's best to give away as much as possible while alive and get a lot of shiny letters on buildings. 28 Mar, 01:50 PMReply! Report AbuseLike1
Regarded SolutionsComments (3145)
Tory....you must be one of those regular folks i bet!......read my article that roger has linked his to......see what i say about debt and spending and giving while living!
I think I make pretty damn good sense actually!
RS 28 Mar, 02:27 PMReply! Report AbuseLike1
TradevestorComments (1200)
Was waiting to see where Roger and RS were heading in this - looks like its been all amicable :) well and good 28 Mar, 04:02 PMReply! Report AbuseLike1
Regarded SolutionsComments (3145)
Did you expect a replay of the disclosure issue another author has faced? LOL.....whew, that was a beaut! 28 Mar, 07:55 PMReply! Report AbuseLike0
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